The New Cue #511 July 21: Dennis Bovell MBE
"I was told by the careers officer that I should be a contact lens lab technician."
Good morning,
Very happy to share this morning’s Life & Times interview with you as it’s with Dennis ‘Black Beard’ Bovell MBE, the 72-year-old musician, producer, songwriter and all-round ubermensch whose imprint has been stamped through so much of the best reggae, dub, post-punk and skewiff pop produced in the UK since the mid-70s.
Born in Barbados, Dennis and family moved to South London twelve years later in 1965. Soon enough, he became embedded in the local reggae culture, particularly dub, running a sound system named Jah Sufferer, a seemingly harmless hobby that nevertheless saw him imprisoned on remand for six months before being freed on appeal. One of his earliest bits of music wizardry was producing a series of dub 12-inches that looked identical to those imported from Jamaica and thus hoodwinked the inverted snobs who believed that the UK could not compete with reggae musicians based in the Caribbean.
His subsequent journey through music has been epic, fitting several music different careers in his one CV. He formed Matumbi, one of the first British reggae bands to command hit records in the 1970s, produced Janet Kay’s genre defining Lover’s Rock hit Silly Games, forged a powerful allegiance with dub poet Linton Kwesi Johnson, running LKJ’s formidable band, and took many a detour into the unknown as a producer, player and writer for artists as diverse as The Slits, The Pop Group, Orange Juice, Bananarama, Fela Kuti and Ryuichi Sakamoto. Recently he’s been knob twiddling and more for The Smile, Jarvis Cocker and others. I made this 90 minute, 25-track taster of his work.
This Friday, he has a new album out named Wise Music in Dub, a collection of tracks made in the Wise label’s London recording studio. Featuring tracks that are neither strictly dub nor instrumental, Dennis dives into the label’s back catalogue - including Minnie Riperton’s Les Fleurs, and The Stylistics’ You’re A Big Girl Now - to deliver an album that is, as he says, “a good example of what dub might sound like in 2025 - I wanted to make something that you know is dub, but also modern.” Here’s the opening number.
Last week, I got on Zoom with Dennis and asked him to face up to our Life & Times questionnaire, to which he said “no problem, mate.”
Enjoy the edition,
Ted and Niall
The Life & Times Of…Dennis Bovell
What was the first record you loved?
Brook Benton, Don't Say It No More. I was about eight. (sings) “Don't say it no more...” [TNC cannot find this tune anywhere, unfortunately]
And what was the last record that you loved?
I’ve never stopped loving records. The most recent one that I really dug on vinyl was a song called Who Let The Dogs Out, the Soca version [alas, we cannot find this either]. All right? Not the hip hop version, the Soca version by Frankie McIntosh from St Vincent. Yes, my friend had a record store at the corner of Seven Sisters station, it was the usual reggae record store in London, in England. It's now the site of a Costa Coffee. My daughter, who was about six, she loved that record, and so did I. So, we went down to the record store and purchased it, came back home and wore the needle out.
What is your earliest memory?
Ah, my earliest memory has to have been about the age of five. My dad had been away working in the US, and he'd come back to Barbados with a bunch of his friends. Now, our back garden was literally on the sea. We lived in a cottage called Miles May Cottage on Queen Street in Speightstown of Barbados, it was a three story dwelling with a roof garden. We - my mum and I, and my sister - lived there whilst dad was in the US, and then Dad came back from the US. One day, my dad and his friends were in the sea, and I was cautioned not to get into the water. But I was intent on showing my dad that I could swim, so I disobeyed the order and swam out to where they were and got a lick for disobeying the order. A few weeks later, he decided that he wasn't going to be in the US because he didn't want to raise his children there. He tried London and word came back that, ‘I like London, I'm staying and you are coming, OK?’ And I was like, No, it snows there!
What is your daily domestic routine?
Out of bed, in the bathroom, get the mix clean, get the armpits sorted, freshen up. To my fruit breakfast: blackberries, blueberries, guava, you know, papaya fruit, then my kefir yoghurt drink. Yeah, the day is on his way and anything can happen.
Who or what is the love of your life?
Music, has to be. Because if it weren't for music, I don't know what I'd be. Nothing else kind of creeps in, really. When I left school, I was told by the careers officer that I should be a contact lens lab technician. And that title kind of, you know, it sounded good in those days, contact lenses were unheard of. So I had a go, and I was quite good at it, but after a year or so, I found that I was doing the same job that guys who'd been there for five years - but I was on much less of a wage. I had a word with the manager, and said, Look, how does that work? And he said, ‘You, my lad, have signed a five-year contract as an apprentice, so the fact that you've learned the job in a year is to my benefit, because you will now work for me for the next five years on an apprentice's wage’.
And I thought, Oh yeah, you're right. But then I wondered, is there a clause? Is there a get out? There was. The get out clause was report late for work every day. Which I could do very easily! Especially when I had a gig with Matumbi - in fact, it would probably be a no show because the gig was in Huddersfield. And to get from Huddersfield at four o'clock in the morning back to London and then be at work at 8:30 was a no. He said to me, you're a lover of music, aren't you? His son was one of my fans and used to come with me to gigs. He thought I was leading his son astray. ‘So that you can make it in the music world,’ he said, ‘you're fired, because if I don't fire you, you won't be able to get the dole. If you leave the job, you won't get the dole, so I'm officially firing you! Get going on your bike, be a musician.’ I have him to thank.
Matumbi in the studio in 1978, Dennis seated on guitar, sounding so good. And below on Top of the Pops in 1979.
What's your worst habit
Overindulging in alcohol?
Has anyone ever made you feel starstruck?
Yes. Several people. Donovan, for one. I was intrigued that he knew who I was and wanted me to produce his stepson's album, Julian, who is his wife's son that she had with Brian Jones. Julian Jones is a big reggae fan. And I was on my way to meet Donovan at his home! I mean, Mr. Mellow Yellow, hello! And I was staying in his house, far out. And what's his name was hanging about, the one from Happy Mondays, yeah Shaun Ryder, as he was married to Donovan’s daughter. And, suddenly, I was part of a big family with Donovan in his house in LA, you know, that was the big one. Also, I was on an aircraft once flying between London and New York, and was sat next to Robert Plant, and I had a conversation with him for six hours to the disgust of the other passengers. A big one was when I was called to work with Marvin Gaye. I walked into the room and just to hear him call out, ‘Hi Dennis.’
Another moment was being drafted in to be the sound engineer of a recording in Amsterdam with none other than Toots Hibbert, one of my musical heroes. On top of that, getting a message from Jonny Greenwood saying that Radiohead had been disbanded and that him and Thom Yorke had got a new group called The Smile and they wanted me to mix their up and coming album. That was cool!
Dennis’s dub remix of The Smoke by The Smile.
Can you cook? And if so, what's your signature dish?
I would say my signature dish would have to be baked salmon with Jamaican jerk sauce, but not too much. With some mashed breadfruit. My mum made a very, very nice mashed breadfruit: we call it cou-cou in Barbados. You can do with the breadfruit whatever you can do with the potato. I think it’s just as tasty, maybe more tasty. And so, yeah, my favourite thing would be that with some cabbage. Quite good.
Who or what is the greatest influence on your work?
In the beginning, it was Jimi Hendrix. It was also, at a point, Little Richard, The Beatles, Curtis Mayfield. Al Green. The Mighty Sparrow.
If you could go back in time, where would you go?
I'd go back to my native Africa and ask the question: why?
What do you wish the 18-year-old you knew?
I wish the 18-year-old me knew a good bloody lawyer. Because I got into so many scrapes with record companies. I'm currently battling [strike this out – Legal Ed], who tell me that I signed a contract to say that my album would be theirs in perpetuity, and then after 20 years, I would receive no more royalties. And they just re-released it! Now, if an 18-year-old me had a good lawyer, that would never have happened.
What is the secret to a happy relationship?
Honesty.
What is the worst thing that anyone has ever said to you?
Wow, I’ve read a lot of mean things. There was a DJ who said to me, ‘Dennis, I love everything you've done. Trust me, I love everything you've done. But why did you have to do a rock version of After Tonight on your Brain Damage album?’ That's not very nice, is it? I was quietly offended.
When were you at your most creatively satisfied?
Well, I'm always creatively satisfied, otherwise, the record doesn't see the light of day. I created Silly Games and invited Janet Kay to be the vocalist. I would say I was reasonably satisfied then! That must count as a quite a lot of satisfaction. I'm not a member of the Rolling Stones. They can't get no satisfaction. But I got it there.
Who’s that handsome chap playing bass behind Janet on Top of the Pops in ‘79?
How do you spark creativity?
Well, creativity is sparked by all and sundry around me. It can be sparked by the whistling of a bird. It could be sparked by the screeching of the tube train arriving into the platform. In fact, I was once working with Boy George with Richard [Stevens], who used to drum with me in my dub band, he was the producer, and while George was out of the room – he’d been telling us he’d become a Buddhist - I said, Richard, you know what he needs on this? A mantra. We've been doing a song that the lyrics said ‘love is bigger than war’. And then it went on to say, bigger than Elvis, The Rolling Stones, bigger than The Beatles, but not Yoko…George, why not Yoko? ‘Nothing is bigger than Yoko.’ Once he was away, I mockingly said to Richard, he needs some answers. So I started [chants] bigger than me, bigger than me, bigger than you, bigger than you, bigger than me…. And George came back, heard me and went, ‘I like it. Would you do it?’ And I did it on the record. Then he called me to tour with him and I consented to doing the show at the O2. So, creativity can be sparked by all sorts.
What is your pet peeve?
People who put their feet on the seats in public transport. That's very, very annoying. Or people who get on public transport with their mobile phone speaker louder than life, playing something that I don't wish to hear, but I'm obliged to by being a passenger. The other one is people who hum in public and I cannot decipher what song it is that they're humming. It's unfortunately quite a lot of elderly African women mainly.
What is the closest you've ever come to death?
I was away on tour with Lee Scratch Perry in Greece, having a nap for five minutes longer than I should have in order to ready myself to join the tour bus to go to the next gig. I took a quick shower in a bath without a slip mat and fell over. I felt like I'd cracked my skull open. I had an out of body feeling, saying to myself ‘Come on, you can't die here - we got a gig to do!’ But it resulted in a cracking of my spine. It healed back but I had to have an operation called a laminectomy to have my right-side nerve removed from the tip of my spine. It was a very, very, very scary moment. Thank God I survived, but it rendered me unable to do certain things with my right hand, like playing the bass guitar. I can play, but I can't do the two- or three-hour concerts I used to with Linton [Kwesi-Johnson] anymore.
The mighty Linton Kwesi Johnson live with the Dennis Bovell Dub Band, Dennis on bass.
What's the best advice you've ever been given?
I was advised once that before I can help other people, I have to first help myself, because if you spread yourself too thin, you won't be able to do anything that you really want to do. So, before you think of helping other people, help yourself.
When and why did you last cry?
I think it was at the funeral of my mum when my niece, who I had encouraged to become a violinist, she played the violin. I'm not ashamed to say the tears came rolling down.
Do you have any phobias?
The one phobia I have is waking up late and missing a gig,
What do you consider your greatest achievement?
Well, I would have to say my greatest achievement are my three boys and three girls. That's a lot, isn't it? Certainly enough to be getting on with.